Curse

Daesu · Jul 27, 2011, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingCrab

I think I did notice SS being a bit less efficient with the double mesmers. This is why I have the Resto weapon spell in the elite slot for my curse nec now, but I'm not too sure about that.

That is because you also brought along Shadow of Fear which counters your SS damage much more than your mesmers.

As for SoH, I would replace Dissonance in your rit with it since he has 2 energy management skills and you already have mesmers for interrupts.

Disease would backfire if you are fighting humans. Other than that, it is fine.

I would replace your Agony on your rit bar with Ancestor's Rage which works great alongside warriors.

I don't use a curse necro with my warrior now, I use a Blood necro with Blood is Power as the elite and bring along Blood Bond and Mark of Fury for cracked armor.

Here is a link to EFGJack's RoJ warrior build for your reference:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/m...t10483358.html

KingCrab · Jul 27, 2011, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

That is because you also brought along Shadow of Fear which counters your SS damage much more than your mesmers.

Thank you, I totally didn't think of that. As long as the opponents are attacking, I imagine it would still work well, but if I block their skills and then slow their attack I can see why it lost so much effectiveness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

As for SoH, I would replace Dissonance in your rit with it since he has 2 energy management skills and you already have mesmers for interrupts.

Another thing I hadn't thought of. For a long time I never brought mesmers along, and dissonance served me well, but now I think I can replace it with something else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Disease would backfire if you are fighting humans. Other than that, it is fine.

Hadn't thought of that possibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I would replace your Agony on your rit bar with Ancestor's Rage which works great alongside warriors.

Will test.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I don't use a curse necro with my warrior now, I use a Blood necro with Blood is Power as the elite and bring along Blood Bond and Mark of Fury for cracked armor.

Here is a link to EFGJack's RoJ warrior build for your reference:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/m...t10483358.html

I might even try BiP on my curses nec. At 8 blood magic, it's still +5 energy regeneration and to get to +4 you only need 3 blood magic. Worth a shot. Thanks for all the insight.

cataphract · Jul 27, 2011, 07:38 AM // 07:38

I'd drop that RoJ hero completely unless you're vanquishing an Undead-heavy area. After that I'd edit the MM - he has way too few secondary profession skills. I'd put his points into Smiting and equip him with SoH, Smite Hex and Smite Condition. I'd drop Masochism too and equip Withering Aura. Although you do have Enfeebling Blood it's very likely you'll engage enemies while it's on cooldown or the hero will prioritize something else leaving you with no weakness on your target. And it's a nice, cheap cover enchantment too.

I asked my friend the Cereal Guy what he thought about your curses necro not having MoP and he was all like

In other words, you should be triggering Barbs and MoP very often. Use IAS, Sun and Moon Slash, Whirling Attack. You don't need disease.

Daesu · Jul 27, 2011, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingCrab

I might even try BiP on my curses nec. At 8 blood magic, it's still +5 energy regeneration and to get to +4 you only need 3 blood magic. Worth a shot. Thanks for all the insight.

I usually have my BiPer at 13 Blood for the +6 breakpoint. BiP has a steep life sac cost, so you want the regen to be worth it.

An alternative to BiP is to use Blood Ritual, which doesn't take up your elite slot. BR has a lower life sac cost, but not as powerful.

If you still want to preserve your necro in curse, you can also use an elite from his secondary profession. Since you do not have any hex removal, you can consider bringing empathic removal and make him a N/Mo. That way you can also bring skills like Dwayna's Sorrow to synergize with your minion bomber.

Anyway, these are just some suggestions.

Hooper287 · Jul 27, 2011, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopysnoopy

Sofar with the 7h update many heros don't have a saved spot of my team rosta no more

Atm this is what I'm using in elona Vq's (HM) and (HM) dungeons too. Not that much of a pit fall but its obtained me R1 Surviour easy...

Have you done bogroots with this?

KingCrab · Jul 27, 2011, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooper287

Have you done bogroots with this?

No I haven't tried this build at all. I'd rather tweak the existing build than try something quite this different.

Relyk · Jul 28, 2011, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Warriors should always have SoH if it's available. Best places to put it are a RoJ, Monk, SoS Rit, or SoGM Rit; they can all afford it. Put SoH on the SoGM, the attribute split goes 11+1+3, 10+1, 10. You can drop Signet of Creation for smite Hex, the hero is unlikely to run out of energy.

Run Pain of Disenchantment on N/Rt, even if you don't need enchantment removal, it's cheap and doesn't burn energy and it's there if you need it. A few people run BiP on heroes, but I find it pointless to bring. You can bring Blood Ritual if your unsure. Other options are IV and Ravenous Gaze. Ravenous Gaze is essential free damage for the hero. Speccing into Blood Magic means Blood Bond for redbarring yourself and minions or Strip Enchantment for enchantment removal when you need it with some spiking power.

You need Whirlwind Attack on your bar so you can abuse Splinter Weapon. Unless you're fixated on Dragon Slash, you don't need to be spamming SY! all the time. Feel free to try out 100b, Endurance Axe/Scythe, Earth Shaker, or DBS Hammer for various areas to feel them out. You can't go wrong with Whirlwind Attack on any bar though.

You will never need MoP/Barbs. MoP is pretty much reserved for 100b since you don't need it for many situations except spiking. Barbs is up to you, I find it just burns energy on enemies who will die anyways and SoH already there for you to kill individual foes.

I have a profound dislike for Paragons. They don't deal significant damage. You can stick Command shouts like Never Surrender, Fall Back, FtW, We Shall Return on a necro who manages energy much better or any hero that can afford it (with microing). Anthem of Envy is the only reason to use Paragon, basing a choice on a single skill is pretty hard to justify.

If you like sever artery and signet of infection, you can always use Fevered Dreams, works well for spreading cracked armor too.

AndrewSX · Jul 28, 2011, 02:58 PM // 14:58

About nec hero carrying mop/barbs:
-barbs has 2 sec cast, on single target. unless you're going to face a single durable enemy (like boss) casting barbs is a waste of time. It should be dead too fast to have barbs worth. if not, there's something not working.
-mop...is always the same story. His power is too situational. it can vary from manly spike (thousands dmg in aoe in 1 sec) to ..nothing. And cause this depends on good balling/targeting of mobs, not always reliable(exp with heroes), in regular pve is generally better drop it and insert more dmg/buff stuff.....

Millenium Warriorr · Jul 28, 2011, 03:47 PM // 15:47

My main is also an warrior, playing him alot.
This is what i have been generally using for some time now and it seems to work on many places, any VQ's easy and pretty fast.

Me: General Earth Shaker build. Save Yourselves! for some heavy prot.

Gwen: Panic with some energy management and caster hater skills such as mistrust.

Norgu: Physic Instability with Clummsiness and Wandering Eye. Some Energy management is good here too.

Master of Whispers: Aura Of The Lich bomber with resto rit skills such as Life and mend body and soul, Spirit Light.

Talhkora: Prot/healing divided monk. Divert hexes, Aegis and some heals + shielding hands and shield of absortion.

Xandra: SoS rit with para shouts. Fall Back! to speed running. Cant Touch this for melees/touchers. Stand on your ground.

Razah: Spirit Support. Soul Twisting with boon of creation. Shelter,Displacement and Union. Of course with Splinter Weapons and Acestors Rage. +Earthbind

Flexible Can take like anything to this, have used Searing Flames spammer. Generally would take pure damage to this but some wards would help in certain areas too!
Also melee booster with orders/SoH/barbs/mop would help but i havent really seen that good idea. My own job is to keep mobs down most of the time and spam SY! Heros can easily overdamage them.

And also, my heros are runed/weaponed for their jobs. No idea does it work without runes.

For use, if you dont have minions yet, or facing hard group.
Always micromanage your razah to put spirits and xandra too. Flag Heros bit Back and cast shield of absortion+shielding hands+aegis and rush in to aggro. Then just...enjoy!

Daesu · Jul 28, 2011, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Blood bond red-bars yourself, your minions, and it is also one of the few skills that heals your spirits.

The paragon damage tends to be unimpressive, he is mainly there as a support character. Besides Anthem of Envy, he can provide Gfte, fallback, stand your ground, never surrender, and Anthem of Disruption which also works with spirit attacks.

Anthem of Envy, Anthem of Disruption, Anthem of Weariness, and Crippling Anthem(elite) work with spirits (allies) as well as party members.

Gfte and fallback work with minions (allies) as well as party members.

Even with unimpressive damage, at least with IAS like Soldier's Fury, he makes much better use of Splinter Weapon than your typical caster. If you want a chance for deep wound, you can also equip him with vicious attack.

That said, I don't have a paragon hero in my party nowadays ever since I have mercs, it is mostly rits and mesmers.

KingCrab · Jul 28, 2011, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

I asked my friend the Cereal Guy what he thought about your curses necro not having MoP and he was all like

Very classy, I enjoyed that. When I vanqed Cantha and Elona I relied heavily on Barbs and Mark of Pain, but I also had a mass minions build with Blood of the Master going on. I'm also just using a minion bomber now, which means not maintaining the ten minions at any given time.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Relyk

Warriors should always have SoH if it's available. Best places to put it are a RoJ, Monk, SoS Rit, or SoGM Rit; they can all afford it. Put SoH on the SoGM, the attribute split goes 11+1+3, 10+1, 10. You can drop Signet of Creation for smite Hex, the hero is unlikely to run out of energy.

I definitely thing SoGM is the place to put it. Many of my other characters are heavily taxed and if I take off Dissonance, I have far more energy than I can use on this character. Then again, it means I'm relying on my mesmers more for all interrupts and probably more importantly I have one less spirit shooting for SoGM to apply to. I'll run some checks to see how damage output is affected, or maybe I'll just try dissonance with SoH and see what happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relyk

Run Pain of Disenchantment on N/Rt, even if you don't need enchantment removal, it's cheap and doesn't burn energy and it's there if you need it.

It just seems like a waste of an elite to me since the mesmers can both remove enchantments and I could even use rip enchantment on this character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relyk

A few people run BiP on heroes, but I find it pointless to bring. You can bring Blood Ritual if your unsure. Other options are IV and Ravenous Gaze. Ravenous Gaze is essential free damage for the hero. Speccing into Blood Magic means Blood Bond for redbarring yourself and minions or Strip Enchantment for enchantment removal when you need it with some spiking power.

The idea of bringing BiP is cause I want a useful elite on this character. If I bring Blood Ritual then I'll still have the same problem

I don't like the blood magic line at all aside from the energy granting spells. I've run a bunch of tests in Glint's challenge and BiP is really helping both my Death Magic Prot Nec and my Channeling Resto Rit. It isn't perfect, but it's a useful elite for this character. The only other options I can think of would involve switching out the heals to Monk heals for UA with maybe Dwayna's sorrow, or finding a Restoration elite that I like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relyk

You need Whirlwind Attack on your bar so you can abuse Splinter Weapon. Unless you're fixated on Dragon Slash, you don't need to be spamming SY! all the time. Feel free to try out 100b, Endurance Axe/Scythe, Earth Shaker, or DBS Hammer for various areas to feel them out. You can't go wrong with Whirlwind Attack on any bar though.

I should experiment more with other Warrior builds. I do like protecting the party with SY! as much as possible, but I switch over to 100b when I know there's going to be massive amounts of creatures. I should try Earthshaker since I have an armor set for hammer and knockdown all ready.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relyk

I have a profound dislike for Paragons. They don't deal significant damage. You can stick Command shouts like Never Surrender, Fall Back, FtW, We Shall Return on a necro who manages energy much better or any hero that can afford it (with microing). Anthem of Envy is the only reason to use Paragon, basing a choice on a single skill is pretty hard to justify.

I dislike them in general, but I like the shouts GftE and Anthem of Envy with my massive amounts of spirits. The other shouts I could do without more. Also I think sometimes my channeler splinters the paragon alongside me. I've tried getting GftE and Anthem of Envy to work on other characters like a monk, but I just need too much adranaline.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

About nec hero carrying mop/barbs:
-barbs has 2 sec cast, on single target. unless you're going to face a single durable enemy (like boss) casting barbs is a waste of time. It should be dead too fast to have barbs worth. if not, there's something not working.
-mop...is always the same story. His power is too situational. it can vary from manly spike (thousands dmg in aoe in 1 sec) to ..nothing. And cause this depends on good balling/targeting of mobs, not always reliable(exp with heroes), in regular pve is generally better drop it and insert more dmg/buff stuff.....

Thanks, I'm pretty much feeling better about not bringing those skills now. The 2 second cast is indeed a killer and there's too much for my curse resto to do anyhow.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Blood bond red-bars yourself, your minions, and it is also one of the few skills that heals your spirits.

Would that be counterproductive with minion bombing? It would keep them alive, so maybe run better with an Aura of the Lich mass minion build. I like the cheap cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

The paragon damage tends to be unimpressive, he is mainly there as a support character.

Exactly. My paragon seems to be sticking around mostly to help spirits and minions dish out the damage. I don't value their attack skills or spear mastery at all (I still just keep spear mastery at 9 so I can use a spear.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Even with unimpressive damage, at least with IAS like Soldier's Fury, he makes much better use of Splinter Weapon than your typical caster. If you want a chance for deep wound, you can also equip him with vicious attack.

I've noticed my channeler giving splinter to my Paragon, and I do have soldier's at my elite right now. Maybe I'll watch to see how often both splinter and Soldier's are up at the same time and do some testing.

What do you think of "Find Their Weakness!" instead of vicious attack? It seems with vicious that the need for critical would hamper things too much. Plus I have a lot more points in command as it is than spear mastery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

That said, I don't have a paragon hero in my party nowadays ever since I have mercs, it is mostly rits and mesmers.

I haven't paid for the mercenary pack yet (and definitely haven't leveled any mesmers) though I might at some point for energy surge. I experimented with putting energy surge on my Paragon, but I thing the Domination skills work much better with 15 domination. Still need to do more testing. What do you think of a Paragon with half domination mes skills? It would allow me to keep up the Anthem of Envy and GftE.

cataphract · Jul 28, 2011, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingCrab

Very classy, I enjoyed that. When I vanqed Cantha and Elona I relied heavily on Barbs and Mark of Pain, but I also had a mass minions build with Blood of the Master going on. I'm also just using a minion bomber now, which means not maintaining the ten minions at any given time.

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You're welcome.

OnTopic: None of my minion bombers have 10 minions and I have 4 legendary vanquishers. Ten minion bombs are not needed. Eight or nine are good enough. They're lower level so they explode faster theoretically dealing more damage.

The only thing that bugs me about playing a warrior with a MM hero in the party is all the bodyblocking. One has to stumble his way to one's target over allied minions quite often. That just drives me insane after a couple of minutes. XD

Swingline · Jul 28, 2011, 06:27 PM // 18:27

I suggest using the pvx wiki dragon slash build with SY. It's actually very good at keeping SY up 100% of the time even when FGJ is down on recharge and has good damage. make sure to bring steelfang slash and utilize it with brawling headbutt. For the last skill slot asuran scan or enduring harmony is a good investment.

For the curse necro I find PoD better than FoC. Might just be my preference but PoD is a god send when facing that rare enemy monk stacking prots. Also great armor ignoring damage.

I have always liked Ineptitude on my illusion Mesmer. I have noticed Gwen casts panic on the mid/backline while Norgu uses Ineptitude on the melee trying to kill my casters.

Xinrae's weapon is actually not that great of an elite when compared to other elites. Shelter and Prot spirit make it bleh, I use preservation and it fairs much better than you think with a MM.

Daesu · Jul 29, 2011, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingCrab

Would that be counterproductive with minion bombing? It would keep them alive, so maybe run better with an Aura of the Lich mass minion build. I like the cheap cost.

Not really, the healing is not enough to heal them so much so that it would be counter productive to bomb. Minions attack too slowly.

The healing is more beneficial to your party members who have IAS and your spirits from both your rits.

Quote:

What do you think of "Find Their Weakness!" instead of vicious attack? It seems with vicious that the need for critical would hamper things too much. Plus I have a lot more points in command as it is than spear mastery.

A more definite deep wound with more energy cost and a longer recharge. Maybe it is better, I don't know, need to test it.

Quote:

I haven't paid for the mercenary pack yet (and definitely haven't leveled any mesmers) though I might at some point for energy surge. I experimented with putting energy surge on my Paragon, but I thing the Domination skills work much better with 15 domination. Still need to do more testing. What do you think of a Paragon with half domination mes skills? It would allow me to keep up the Anthem of Envy and GftE.

I think it is easier for your mesmers to run some paragon skills than the other way around.

The paragon skills that I brought with mesmers are, fallback, stand your ground, and never surrender. I may replace the last one, I am still testing my build.

loopysnoopy · Jul 30, 2011, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooper287

Have you done bogroots with this?

Hooper this build does bogroots very easy in (HM)

Just wondering tho why the op is say he wont try it as its : something quite this different. what puzzles me is most of those build have ideas from meta bars just tweaked but alas every warrior/player needs to find there own play style My advise still is drop the mesmers

Daesu · Jul 30, 2011, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopysnoopy

My advise still is drop the mesmers

Although your build looks viable for most general play, that doesn't necessarily imply that mesmer heroes are bad. In fact, I'll go on to say that in most elite areas, mesmer heroes would come up on top because of AoE armor ignoring damage and protection from caster damage at the same time.

loopysnoopy · Jul 31, 2011, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Although your build looks viable for most general play, that doesn't necessarily imply that mesmer heroes are bad. In fact, I'll go on to say that in most elite areas, mesmer heroes would come up on top because of AoE armor ignoring damage and protection from caster damage at the same time.

I have already said in post 19 mesmers are powerful but in certain situations they are not that viable due to the fact a warrior can get more use out of a smite monk instead of a mesmer running PI,Panic or inept but that is my personal opinion......

Daesu · Jul 31, 2011, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopysnoopy

I have already said in post 19 mesmers are powerful but in certain situations they are not that viable due to the fact a warrior can get more use out of a smite monk instead of a mesmer running PI,Panic or inept but that is my personal opinion......

That depends on playstyle. If you don't bother to aggro everytime then smite monks would have limited uses.

Also without panic, CoF, and mistrust, then you are weaker against caster groups. If you don't have enough armor ignoring damage in your team and you face high level, high armor foes in HM, then your non-armor ignoring damage would barely make a dent in their hp. Feel free to test your above build against foundry or the HM Titan quests.

Making a build for general pve play with 7 heroes is easy. Making one that can also work well in the elite areas of the game, is not that straight forward.

loopysnoopy · Jul 31, 2011, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

That depends on playstyle. If you don't bother to aggro everytime then smite monks would have limited uses.

Also without panic, CoF, and mistrust, then you are weaker against caster groups. If you don't have enough armor ignoring damage in your team and you face high level, high armor foes in HM, then your non-armor ignoring damage would barely make a dent in their hp. Feel free to test your above build against foundry or the HM Titan quests.

All true but I have done the titan (HM) quest with that set-up only 1 wipe as I aggro'd 4 groups by mistake yes it was not easy struggled a bit, but i was able to get them to ball with the pet and my self then RoJ'd them

DoA any part of it I wont do as I hate all elite areas done them once and never again

And also I have stated that in my party of 7h there's never 1 spot that's a must have or it has to be in there as I will choose wisely But my set up has done FoW (HM) only once mind you.. With ease but FoW (HM) or (NM) is a breeze.

Daesu · Jul 31, 2011, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopysnoopy

All true but I have done the titan (HM) quest with that set-up only 1 wipe as I aggro'd 4 groups by mistake yes it was not easy struggled a bit, but i was able to get them to ball with the pet and my self then RoJ'd them

DoA any part of it I wont do as I hate all elite areas done them once and never again

With the right setup you wont need to wipe even once. You shouldn't be advising people to drop mesmer heroes. Just because your team doesn't have one that doesn't mean it is a superior setup.